Any tools for cross-platform backup-restore (off of HP-UX Itanium)? - Forum - OpenEdge RDBMS - Progress Community

Any tools for cross-platform backup-restore (off of HP-UX Itanium)?

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Any tools for cross-platform backup-restore (off of HP-UX Itanium)?

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Are there any third party tools that allow Progress customers to do a cross-platform "backup"/restore?  The intermediate "backup" file(s) would not need to be a standard format.  They could be in any format (perhaps simply consisting of a package of regular OE dump files).  The reason I ask is because Progress has left a big gap where this backup/restore feature should exist.  I was hoping that somebody had something to fill the gap.  (I'm thinking of vendors like riverside, roundtable, bravepoint, or any other vendor).

Another obvious option is to dump/load but that is soooo much work.  It involves numerous and very error-prone steps to be done manually by the DBA.  Moreover it is very time consuming from the a DBA's point of view and, depending on how good the DBA is, the process can under-utilize the available hardware (ie. CPU and disk can remain largely unused on either the source machine, target machine, or both if the DBA is busy organizing their manual work, or they are neglecting to operate on multiple tables concurrently).  If hardware is under-utilized then it can cause the outage window to be far longer than it needs to be.

Long ago we had asked Progress about a product of theirs, "PRO D&L", but they said that wasn't used for the same purpose (ie. simply automating a dump/load).  I think that product was for hooking into replication triggers and allowing a cross platform migration to be performed over several days without any database outages.  We are looking for a much more *simple* (but fast) operation that moves data from one platform to another during an outage window that is as short as possible.

I found an enhancement idea that is a couple years old now, and was wondering if this might be completed before HP-UX comes to its end-of-life date in 2025.

https://community.progress.com/community_groups/products_enhancements/i/openedge_database_enhancements_-_tell_us_what_youd_like_to_see/permit_cross-platform_database_restore

It will be nice to move out of HP-UX one day.  We'd go to another Progress platform like Windows or Linux.  But the prospect of doing the dump and load is not something we look forward to.  Long ago we did these dump/loads on a yearly basis, but these days we are a bit out of practice.

Speaking of migrating HP-UX databases, I thought I would point out that there was once a time when we ran the OE database on HP-UX PA-RISC.  When that architecture stopped being supported by Progress, they were able to waive a magical wand and allowed the OE database to be migrated from PA-RISC to Itanium *without* requiring a dump and load (see KB: https://knowledgebase.progress.com/articles/Article/P132598 ).   Is it reasonable to hope that they will do a similar thing when the time comes once again to stop supporting Progress on Itanium?  (Eg. OE 12 no longer supports Itanium)  

It would be really nice if Progress would consider doing all the heavy lifting for us.  Using their dump/load process is not a very happy prospect at all.

Verified Answer
  • HPUX on PA-RISC is Big Endian.  So is AIX and Solaris.  HPUX on Itanium is Little Endian, but when we did the initial port of HPUX to Itanium, the HPUX engineer suggested that we make the database Big Endian so the migration would be easier and since the Itanium chips were much faster any performance penalty for byte-swapping would be hidden by the faster speed.  This is why you can backup/restore between HPUX on PA-RISC and Itanium.

    Linux and Windows are Little Endian, so hence you must dump (to ascii or binary) to move from any Big Endian machine to Linux or Windows.

    Given modern day CPU speeds, if we were to start over, we would probably pick Little Endian and make databases compatible between all platforms, however there are always edge cases, where a customer would  require every last bit of CPU speed and they would not be happy with this compatibly cost since they likely would not be changing platforms.

    In the end, currently, Little Endian is taking over the world.  Windows and Linux are the largest growth platforms for deploying OpenEdge applications.  With HPUX going away and the decline of Solaris in deployment the database deployments will end up being AIX (Big Endian), Linux (Little Endian) and Windows (Little Endian).  

    It would not be too difficult to package up a migration tool that does the binary dump/load df export, user export, sequence export, etc to do this for you.  But if you want it to make effective use of the hardware at hand, then a generic tool becomes much harder.

    Mike
    -- 
    Mike Furgal
    Director – Database and Pro2 Services
    PROGRESS Bravepoint
    617-803-2870 


  • The only adequate solution today for migrating large databases from one platform to another is Pro2Pro.  it's really not difficult, and, most importantly, efficiently without long downtime.

    IMHO, something else, most likely, will not be implemented taking into account various architectural constraints.

  • Entire dump / create / load can be scripted quite easily with pct.

  • Hi:

    The Pro2 product can be purchased and implemented yourself, however 99% of the implementation are done by the Progress PS team.  If you wanted to use Pro2 strictly for a D/L purpose, then if you engage with Progress PS, we can do this for you where we include the “rental” of the software as part of the fee for performing the D/L.  Otherwise you would need to purchase the product.

    The Pro2Pro process is:
     - Install the software
     - Configure it
     - Add the triggers
     - Bulkload (This is the D/L portion)

    At cutover time, we just need to make sure the replqueue is empty, then remove the plumbing field (prrowid) from each table and the index on that field.  This is less than 1 hour of downtime regardless of the size of the database.

    If you are interested, contact me or your sales rep for a quote.

    Mike
    -- 
    Mike Furgal
    Director – Database and Pro2 Services
    PROGRESS Bravepoint
    617-803-2870 


  • I agree with Tom completely on this.  The MDBA business I run we dump and load a customer pretty much every weekend.  So we have canned scripts to start with.  If downtime is limited, then we start tweaking the scripts.   If the tweaked scripts still causes too much downtime, that is when we go down the Pro2Pro path for the dump and load.  We are probably dong a Pro2Pro Dump and Load every 6 weeks on average.

    Mike
    -- 
    Mike Furgal
    Director – Database and Pro2 Services
    PROGRESS Bravepoint
    617-803-2870 


All Replies
  • I agree with Tom completely on this.  The MDBA business I run we dump and load a customer pretty much every weekend.  So we have canned scripts to start with.  If downtime is limited, then we start tweaking the scripts.   If the tweaked scripts still causes too much downtime, that is when we go down the Pro2Pro path for the dump and load.  We are probably dong a Pro2Pro Dump and Load every 6 weeks on average.

    Mike
    -- 
    Mike Furgal
    Director – Database and Pro2 Services
    PROGRESS Bravepoint
    617-803-2870 


  • > On Aug 29, 2018, at 7:31 PM, dbeavon wrote:

    >

    > It sounds like there is an opportunity for someone to create a tool to facilitate the migration of a database away from HP-UX.

    How much would you be willing to pay for such a tool ?

    -gus

  • >> How much would you be willing to pay for such a tool ...?

    @gus ... to me it would probably be worth the equivalent of 1-3 years of maintenance on a PDSOE license.  It might be worth as much as hiring a consultant (to work on a home-grown/custom database migration).  A tool is something that we could use repeatedly.  On the other hand we probably wouldn't want to hire a consultant for the same type of work repeatedly.  And we wouldn't need to if we had a good tool.

    Let me ask you a similar question... how much would a pro2pro engagement (and rental) be if the goal is to simply migrate a 500 GB database in production from HP-UX to Windows?   How would that compare to hiring a consultant who would do a home-grown migration?  

  • Hi Mike,

    mfurgal
    One point of Clarity.  Pro2 Version 5 includes a CDC license for use with Pro2 only.

    But OE CDC is an ADD-ON license. For example, the client has 100 OpenEdge RDBMS licenses, which means that we need 100 OE CDC licenses, right?
    How many CDC licenses are provided with Pro2?

  • Valeriy, we have a Customer of me has a license for Pro2, but the menuepoint for CDC is disabled. Is that because they do not have a RDBMS CDC license?

  • For use Pro2 + OE CDC, you need :

    1. Enable CDC on the database (Need CDC license).

    2. In the predefs.i file, set ENABLE_OE_CDC parameter to Yes to enable the CDC menu.

  • The CDC included with the Pro2 product will allow the CDC to work with Pro2, so I think it’s a special license.  So if you have 100 users, all 100 users can run CDC for Pro2 use only.

    Mike
    -- 
    Mike Furgal
    Director – Database and Pro2 Services
    PROGRESS Bravepoint
    617-803-2870