Likes and dislikes - Forum - OpenEdge Development - Progress Community
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Likes and dislikes

  • OK, this thread is way too quiet. We're working on where to go next with OpenEdge Architect, and all of you out there can play a role. What do you like best about it? What don't you like? Give me your top three suggestions of what direction to take this product.

  • Doing a serious end to end review would take some time. Given that I am hoping that the 10.1B Beta will be around real soon now, that might be a good occasion to do that, but in the meantime, here are a couple of things.

    Current templates are too rigid in a number of places. To see what I mean, try going through to change to lower case keywords everywhere. Some templates can be modified, some can't. See http://www.peg.com/lists/peg/history/200607/msg00140.html for details.

    There should be a structure for creating new templates.

    One should be able to open the target of run progname.p without using navigation.

    Completion doesn't work with buffers.

    T4BL should be dropped until it can be made flexible.

    Curious how your syntax engine periodically falls in a hole. Maybe you should license Proparse?

    Documentation is very limited and poor and not accessible, i.e., not PDF. I am sure there is good stuff in there that I haven't found yet, but I am unsure how to access it.

    I'll think of more. Sorry, the complaints come to the top, but actually I like it a lot. It has lured me back from using ED4W exclusively for development.

    Consulting in Model-Based Development, Transformation, and Object-Oriented Best Practice  http://www.cintegrity.com

  • Curious how your syntax engine periodically falls in

    a hole. Maybe you should license Proparse?

    No need to be cheeky! Different parsers are optimized for different things. Proparse is for source documenting and static analysis. The compiler's parser is optimized for compiling. The parser in the editor in OEA should be optimized for "partial parsing as you edit", where the currently edited source file may be incomplete, may not compile, etc.

    I've noticed bugs in the OEA editor's parser as well, but I'm not going to use that as one of my top three.

    As a plug-in developer, my top three are:

    1. OEA supported as a plug-in to the current version of Eclipse with the current version of Java.

    2. Extension points.

    3. A chapter in the user manual specifically targeting plug-in developers, to describe the extension points and any other API available.

  • No need to be cheeky!

    I'm only being a wee bit rude since it seems like one of the things that they ought to know how to do.

    Different parsers are optimized for different things.

    Well, then, perhaps they just need to hire Joanju to fix the parser they have!

    As a plug-in developer, my top three are:

    I'll vote for those as well!

    Consulting in Model-Based Development, Transformation, and Object-Oriented Best Practice  http://www.cintegrity.com

  • I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but TMH thinks so, and I wouldn't want to arge with him.

    This was originally posted here http://www.psdn.com/library/thread.jspa?threadID=2260&tstart=0 - if you think this is a seperate thread post over there, otherwise feel free to reply here.

    I know Niel's posted a "wish list" thread, but this really doesn't fall under that. I'm just getting into OEA, and I'm trying to get the editor the way I like it. I've been partially successful, but I'm running into "wierdnesses" that I can't easily figure out.

    As a bit of background, I use ED4Win nearly exclusively and am quite productive with it. I expect that going from that to OEA's going to take some doing, and some things about how I work will have to change, but beyond that I'm having issues. Given that OEA is a 1.0 release it’s not surprising that it needs polishing, so here’s where I’d like to see some “Wax” applied.

    Editor:

    • have the "preferences" box remember where you were the last time you were there. In fiddling with the colors, font sizes, etc, each time I go to the editor preferences I have to clear the filter and re-enter it to get to “non-editor” areas – like keyboard key assignments.

    • word completion - if I define variable names, query & browse names, etc. earlier in the code, I should be able to get it auto-completed later on in the program file, similar to how keyword completion works.

    • add line & column display somewhere in the editor.

    • Keyboard key assignments for ctrl-up and ctrl-down don't seem to exist. Point in fact, there are key assignments that appear to be completely missing from the “Key preferences” window. (For instance, I use ctrl-pgup & ctl-pgdwn to navigate up/down procedure entries. In OEA that steps me through the editor tabs, which I’d rather be the ctrl-tab & ctl-shift-tab I currently use. Neither of these appear to be in the “Keys” screen).

    • Changes to keyboard key assignment don't seem to stick. - I've tried changing "go to a line # in the editor” from ctl-L to ctl-G. OEA seems to accept the change, but when I go to the browse it’s still ctl-L. Closing and opening the key assignment editor still shows the ctl-L key assignment.

    • I want to be able to change or replace the existing templates. I've got a number of ED4Win macros I use, and haven't figured out how I can do something similar under OEA. Also, I really don't want to use the OEA imposed set of template shortcuts but change them to what I already use. There doesn’t appear to be a way to do that.

    • I’d like to have templates that can invoke other templates (ie "given templates 'a', 'b', and 'c', where the 'c' template can cause the 'a' and 'b' templates to d their thing).

    • cursor hugs-end-of-line: I want to be able to turn that off. I cursor past end-of-line all the time to make sure code lines up, etc. and find the current behaviour a loss of functionality I already have.

    Projects:

    • I can import a directory tree and all it’s files into a project, but I can't remove a file from a project w/out deleting the file itself.

    Database connectivity:

    • Ability to connect to a db single-user. I work with a lot of stand-alone databases, so having to start a server with –S, and keep all the –S’s distinct from each other so I can make a jdbc connection to the db’s a pain.

    • Add jdbc drivers to allow for db connections to pre-10.1 OE databases. I work with legacy systems all the time, and can’t mandate upgrades to my customers for a number of reasons, which means I need that connectivity. This is particularly important considering that the OES license is supposed to be “going away” in time.

    Database Navigation:

    • Ability to browse a database by fields, tables, index-names, index field components across the entire db, not just within a table.

    • Speed up navigation - having to drill down through db-name/pub/table/table-name/columns is repetitive work I shouldn’t need to do. Perhaps a way to filter out PSC internal db stuff like you can do in the current db tool?

    Documentation:

    • I'll second the request for PDF docs. The on-line help's ok, but there's a lot of stuff in here and I'm having a hard time figuring out where everything goes and how it all goes together.

  • I wouldn't want to arge with him.

    Since when are you so shy?

    Thanks for posting it here. I think it will help to make a more cohesive discussion.

    Consulting in Model-Based Development, Transformation, and Object-Oriented Best Practice  http://www.cintegrity.com

  • I've thrown in my two cents about a few things below.

    I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread, but TMH

    thinks so, and I wouldn't want to arge with him.

    This was originally posted here

    http://www.psdn.com/library/thread.jspa?threadID=2260&

    tstart=0 - if you think this is a seperate thread

    post over there, otherwise feel free to reply here.

    I know Niel's posted a "wish list" thread, but this

    really doesn't fall under that. I'm just getting into

    OEA, and I'm trying to get the editor the way I like

    it. I've been partially successful, but I'm running

    into "wierdnesses" that I can't easily figure out.

    As a bit of background, I use ED4Win nearly

    exclusively and am quite productive with it. I expect

    that going from that to OEA's going to take some

    doing, and some things about how I work will have to

    change, but beyond that I'm having issues. Given that

    OEA is a 1.0 release it’s not surprising that it

    needs polishing, so here’s where I’d like to see some

    “Wax” applied.

    Editor:

    • have the "preferences" box remember where you were

    the last time you were there. In fiddling with the

    colors, font sizes, etc, each time I go to the editor

    preferences I have to clear the filter and re-enter

    it to get to “non-editor” areas – like keyboard key

    assignments.

    This is basic Eclipse functionality that is not provided by OpenEdge Architect. I don't usually use the filter to find stuff since I'm familiar with the tree nodes to find what I'm looking for. As long as you're within the same session the preference and property pages will always reselect the preference page where you were.

    • word completion - if I define variable names, query

    & browse names, etc. earlier in the code, I should be

    able to get it auto-completed later on in the program

    file, similar to how keyword completion works.

    This is a feature of advanced editing that requires the AST to be perfectly functional. if you turned off advanced editing, then this won't work.

    • add line & column display somewhere in the editor.

    Line numbers are there. check under window->preferences->general->preferences->editors->text editors. I think its in a slightly different tree level in eclipse 3.1/ OE Architect. There is a check box turn turn on line number display. Sorry, no column rulers. The line number/column is also displayed in the status at the bottom of the screen (i'm looking at eclipse 3.2 for this...not sure about 3.1 although I think the featuer is there as well)

    • Keyboard key assignments for ctrl-up and ctrl-down

    don't seem to exist. Point in fact, there are key

    assignments that appear to be completely missing from

    the “Key preferences” window. (For instance, I use

    ctrl-pgup & ctl-pgdwn to navigate up/down procedure

    entries. In OEA that steps me through the editor

    tabs, which I’d rather be the ctrl-tab &

    ctl-shift-tab I currently use. Neither of these

    appear to be in the “Keys” screen).

    I dont' think eclipse has defaults for these at the editor level so the key stroke gets passed up to the next higher level which is the view area. They could be reassigned to use them as navigation keys (and make them redefinable). Would have to add key bindings to the editor for them.

    • Changes to keyboard key assignment don't seem to

    stick. - I've tried changing "go to a line # in the

    editor” from ctl-L to ctl-G. OEA seems to accept the

    change, but when I go to the browse it’s still ctl-L.

    Closing and opening the key assignment editor still

    shows the ctl-L key assignment.

    I played with this a bit. In the key editor, don't try to edit the existing one. Instead select the "go to line" for ctrl+l and press the 'add" button and then change the keystroke. The edit doesn't seem to behave itself. The UI layout that eclipse gives for keyboard shortcuts is lousy. It was supposed to have been rewritten in 3.2 but they removed the new preference pages in the final builds.

    • I want to be able to change or replace the existing

    templates. I've got a number of ED4Win macros I use,

    and haven't figured out how I can do something

    similar under OEA. Also, I really don't want to use

    the OEA imposed set of template shortcuts but change

    them to what I already use. There doesn’t appear to

    be a way to do that.

    By templates do you mean the editor templates such as DVCH? Or do you mean the code generation templates for new file and new class?

    • I’d like to have templates that can invoke other

    templates (ie "given templates 'a', 'b', and 'c',

    where the 'c' template can cause the 'a' and 'b'

    templates to d their thing).

    I assume you're talking about DVCH and such?

    • cursor hugs-end-of-line: I want to be able to turn

    that off. I cursor past end-of-line all the time to

    make sure code lines up, etc. and find the current

    behaviour a loss of functionality I already have.

    This can be added as a preference setting. For some reason the preference setting isn't exposed as part of the standard text editor preference pages in eclipse. The behavior toggles the home/end keys from jumping either to the end of any non-whitespace characters, or to the real end of the line.

    Projects:

    • I can import a directory tree and all it’s files

    into a project, but I can't remove a file from a

    project w/out deleting the file itself.

    Eclipse defines a project as a set of resources within a directory. You can also "link" to a directory or a specific file that it outside the actual project directory itself (use the new file or new folder wizard and select the advanced button). But again, this links in the whole directory and its children. There are filters available to hide any file you want, but in reality its still part of the project until you physically re/move it.

    Database connectivity:

    • Ability to connect to a db single-user. I work with

    a lot of stand-alone databases, so having to start a

    server with –S, and keep all the –S’s distinct from

    each other so I can make a jdbc connection to the

    db’s a pain.

    In 10.1A you can. Just define the database connection string using the full path "-db c:\blah\blah.db -1". You'll lose any database navigator functionality this way since its restricted to jdbc connections.

    • Add jdbc drivers to allow for db connections to

    pre-10.1 OE databases. I work with legacy systems all

    the time, and can’t mandate upgrades to my customers

    for a number of reasons, which means I need that

    connectivity. This is particularly important

    considering that the OES license is supposed to be

    “going away” in time.

    I've heard its possible to setup your "own" jdb driver on the database navigator preference page...never done it though.

    Database Navigation:

    • Ability to browse a database by fields, tables,

    index-names, index field components across the entire

    db, not just within a table.

    • Speed up navigation - having to drill down through

    db-name/pub/table/table-name/columns is repetitive

    work I shouldn’t need to do. Perhaps a way to filter

    out PSC internal db stuff like you can do in the

    current db tool?

    Documentation:

    • I'll second the request for PDF docs. The on-line

    help's ok, but there's a lot of stuff in here and

    I'm having a hard time figuring out where everything

    goes and how it all goes together.

  • OK, this thread is way too quiet. We're working on

    where to go next with OpenEdge Architect, and all of

    you out there can play a role. What do you like best

    about it? What don't you like? Give me your top

    three suggestions of what direction to take this

    product.

    Going the Eclipse route, when it was possible to use VSTE (a $-program to extend Visual Studio.Net), and therefor implicitly choosing for Java, created a platform of choice for editing ABL-logic. Is there anyone exploiting this feature, so is there anybody developing ABL-applications on Linux for instance?

    How do you experience writing .Net frontends combined with the Eclipse experience?

  • Hi Matt - thanks for the post.

    I've thrown in my two cents about a few things

    below.

    >>

    >> Editor:

    >>

    >> * have the "preferences" box remember where you

    >> were the last time you were there. In fiddling with the

    >> colors, font sizes, etc, each time I go to the

    >> editor preferences I have to clear the filter and

    >> re-enter it to get to “non-editor” areas – like keyboard

    >> key assignments.

    >This is basic Eclipse functionality that is not

    >provided by OpenEdge Architect.

    ?!?

    Why would OEA cripple basic functionality like that?

    I don't usually use the filter to find stuff since I'm

    familiar with the tree nodes to find what I'm looking

    for.

    I don't get that choice - it's there by default and won't go away.

    As long as you're within the same session the

    preference and property pages will always reselect

    the preference page where you were.

    I don't think I'm communicating the issue clearly, so I'll try again.

    I'm in the editor. I then right-click in the editor window and select "preferences." The preferences window comes up, and the "filter" box has "filtered" in it. The only menu available is general / editors / text editors - all the other options have been filtered out.

    If I clear the filter, all the other menus come back. I then select something else, do something, and close the preferences window. If I go back to the preferences window because the change didn't quite work the way I wanted, I'm back to the original filtered window with just the editor menu showing. This is doubly annoying if I'm changing a non-"editor" setting since they're hidden because of this filtering.

    • word completion - if I define variable names,

    query & browse names, etc. earlier in the code,

    I should be able to get it auto-completed later

    on in the program file, similar to how keyword

    completion works.

    This is a feature of advanced editing that requires

    the AST to be perfectly functional. if you turned

    off advanced editing, then this won't work.

    And where would I find "advanced editing" to turn it on or off? It's not anywhere on the editor preferences page.

    Never mind - I found it under Open Edge -> Editor -> Assistance. That's completely non-intuitive...editor options all belong together. If there's OE-specific flags to set, they should be in the section they go with and labelled as such. If an OE-specific menu is required, that should be an additional place to set those flags, not the only place to set them.

    I've confirmed the flag is turned on. I'm still not getting auto-completion.

    • add line & column display somewhere in the

    editor.

    Line numbers are there. check under

    window->preferences->general->

    preferences->editors->text editors.

    That turns on line numbers on the left side. That still leaves the current cursor column missing.

    I think its in a slightly different tree

    level in eclipse 3.1/ OE Architect. There is a check

    box turn turn on line number display. Sorry, no

    column rulers. The line number/column is also

    displayed in the status at the bottom of the screen

    (i'm looking at eclipse 3.2 for this...not sure about

    3.1 although I think the featuer is there as well)

    So that what those two un-labelled numbers at the bottom are!

    Ok, check that one off, and replace it with putting a label on the current row, column display.

    • Keyboard key assignments for ctrl-up and

    ctrl-down don't seem to exist. Point in fact,

    there are key assignments that appear to be

    completely missing from the “Key preferences”

    window. (For instance, I use ctrl-pgup & ctl-pgdwn

    to navigate up/down procedure entries. In OEA

    that steps me through the editor tabs, which I’d

    rather be the ctrl-tab & ctl-shift-tab I currently

    use. Neither of these appear to be in the “Keys” screen).

    I dont' think eclipse has defaults for these at the

    editor level so the key stroke gets passed up to the

    next higher level which is the view area. They could

    be reassigned to use them as navigation keys (and

    make them redefinable). Would have to add key

    bindings to the editor for them.

    The "keys" window I see has "catagory", "command", "key sequence", and "when". It appears that it has key assignments for the entire package, as the "when" covers context editing, debugging, editing text, in dialogs and windows, and in windows, so I would expect those bindings to be in that window somewhere.

    >> * Changes to keyboard key assignment don't seem to

    >> stick. - I've tried changing "go to a line # in

    >> the editor” from ctl-L to ctl-G. OEA seems to

    >> accept the change, but when I go to the browse

    >> it’s still ctl-L. Closing and opening the key assignment

    >> editor still shows the ctl-L key assignment.

    I played with this a bit. In the key editor, don't

    try to edit the existing one. Instead select the "go

    to line" for ctrl+l and press the 'add" button and

    then change the keystroke. The edit doesn't seem to

    behave itself. The UI layout that eclipse gives for

    keyboard shortcuts is lousy. It was supposed to have

    been rewritten in 3.2 but they removed the new

    preference pages in the final builds.

    Will something be done with this in the future? Lousy is bad but usable, but non-functional is totally unacceptable.

    >>* I want to be able to change or replace the

    >> existing templates. I've got a number of ED4Win

    >> macros I use, and haven't figured out how I can

    >> do something similar under OEA. Also, I really don't

    >> want to use the OEA imposed set of template shortcuts

    >> but change them to what I already use. There doesn’t

    >> appear to be a way to do that.

    By templates do you mean the editor templates such as

    DVCH? Or do you mean the code generation templates

    for new file and new class?

    I'm thinking preferences -> openedge -> editor -> templates. I imagine I'll eventually want to do something with the code generation templates, but I haven't gotten that far yet.

    For the editor templates, it looks like I can change the description and pattern, but I can't change the "name" - which I'm assuming is the keyboard sequence that fires each template off.

    The "edit template" window "pattern" editing area's awfully small. I've got some other templates that are a few K in size, and trying to maintain them in something like this would be difficult. Ideally, templates should be edited in an editor window, unless they're supposed to be restricted to simplistic variable declarations.

    >> * cursor hugs-end-of-line: I want to be able to

    >> turn that off. I cursor past end-of-line all the time

    >> to make sure code lines up, etc. and find the current

    >> behaviour a loss of functionality I already have.

    This can be added as a preference setting. For some

    reason the preference setting isn't exposed as part

    of the standard text editor preference pages in

    eclipse. The behavior toggles the home/end keys from

    jumping either to the end of any non-whitespace

    characters, or to the real end of the line.

    I'm not concerned about home / end keys, I want to be able to (1) cursor-right past end-of-line rather than having to tab or space over, and (2) cursor up / down from whatever line I'm on and go straight up / down while maintaining column position, regardless of however long the current line I'm on is.

    Speaking of whitespace past end-of-line, a setting to automatically strip that would be nice. There are cases (such as with continuation line "~" markers) where trailing whitespace breaks code and causes it not to compile.

    Projects:

    • I can import a directory tree and all it’s files

    into a project, but I can't remove a file from a

    project w/out deleting the file itself.

    Eclipse defines a project as a set of resources

    within a directory. You can also "link" to a

    directory or a specific file that it outside the

    actual project directory itself (use the new file or

    new folder wizard and select the advanced button).

    But again, this links in the whole directory and its

    children. There are filters available to hide any

    file you want, but in reality its still part of the

    project until you physically re/move it.

    What I'm thinking of is a file got into a project - such as by the import process - that I decide I don't want in there - even if it is hidden behind a filter condition.

    I can't just dis-associate it from the project, I have to delete the file. While I can see the logic of associating those actions, I can think of cases where it's not desirable behavior.

    >> Database connectivity:

    >>

    >> * Ability to connect to a db single-user. I work

    >> with a lot of stand-alone databases, so having

    >> to start a server with –S, and keep all the –S’s

    >> distinct from each other so I can make a jdbc

    >> connection to the db’s a pain.

    In 10.1A you can. Just define the database

    connection string using the full path "-db

    c:\blah\blah.db -1". You'll lose any database

    navigator functionality this way since its restricted

    to jdbc connections.

    And jdbc requires a server with -S.

    If there was some way for OEA to start a db server w/a -S port, and then make a connection, that would get rid of the problem of managing the -S port number space manually.

    >> * Add jdbc drivers to allow for db connections to

    >> pre-10.1 OE databases. I work with legacy systems

    >> all the time, and can’t mandate upgrades to my

    >> customers for a number of reasons, which means

    >> I need that connectivity. This is particularly important

    >> considering that the OES license is supposed to be

    >> “going away” in time.

    I've heard its possible to setup your "own" jdb

    driver on the database navigator preference

    page...never done it though.

    I've gotten drivers to make 10.0 and 9.1 db connections, but they're "unsupported". Pre-10.1 drivers need to come stock with OEA, and be supported, otherwise PSC risks making OEA un-usable with pre-10.1 database systems.

    This will be a real a problem when the license policy which allows shops to run both OEA and OES expires and shops are supposed to declare which package they're going with, or paying for a new license to keep them both of them active and under maintenance. Personally I think OEA and OES should be packaged together until OES eventually dies on the vine.

    Tim Kuehn

  • On the "preferences" window reset issue - if I go "windows, preferences", I'm seeing the behavior I'm asking for compared to going to 'preferences' from the editor window.

  • I've confirmed the flag is turned on. I'm still not getting auto-completion.

    Compared to ED4W, auto-competion is clearly limited, except for the part about being table and field aware ... and that is clearly limited because it doesn't recognize buffers.

    Consulting in Model-Based Development, Transformation, and Object-Oriented Best Practice  http://www.cintegrity.com

  • Compared to ED4W, auto-competion is clearly limited,

    This is virtually a deal-breaker for me when it comes to using the OEA editor for serious coding. The convention I follow for naming variables, procedures, and functions results in some pretty long references. This hasn't been a problem because with auto-completion I don't have to type them more than once, and successive references are always spelled right.

    Unless there's some other way to accomplish the same thing, that means - for me - the OEA editor's only suitable for debugging and minor code changes.

    except for the part about being table and field aware

    ... and that is clearly limited because it doesn't

    recognize buffers.

    I think I'd be ok with that since I typically use procedure/function scoped buffers for all table references, not alternate buffer names. Consequently I generally don't have many alternate buffer names to worry about, but when I do auto-completion's a big help there as well.

    That leaves the templates and code generators. If I can duplicate the various standard templates in OEA that I have in ED4W, that'd be a strong plus in OEA's favor.

  • For me, the lack of auto-completion on buffers makes the feature almost useless since I deplore the define buffer customer for customer convention, so virtually all of my table references are to something like ibf_Customer.

    The engine is certainly there for doing all kinds of templates and expansion ... it just needs to be made open enough for us to extend it. After notable pain and suffering, I am now happy enough with the dvch type expansions.

    Consulting in Model-Based Development, Transformation, and Object-Oriented Best Practice  http://www.cintegrity.com

  • For me, the lack of auto-completion on buffers makes

    the feature almost useless since I deplore the define

    buffer customer for customer convention, so virtually

    all of my table references are to something like

    ibf_Customer.

    The engine is certainly there for doing all kinds of

    templates and expansion ... it just needs to be made

    open enough for us to extend it. After notable pain

    and suffering, I am now happy enough with the dvch

    type expansions.

    We hear you. There is a lot we want to do in this area to make it better. There is an internal wish list that includes what you mentioned and more.

  • We don't. The preference page action on the editor's context menu is put there by eclipse, not by us. We could replace/change/remove it, but there hasn't been any need. We add contributions such as compile/check syntax and the source submenu, but the navigation and some of the other stuff is on there already.

    I've confirmed the flag is turned on. I'm still not

    getting auto-completion.

    Auto completion or context asist? Auto completion can be turned on/off from window->preferences->general->OEA->editor->assistance. Defaults to on.

    Context assist is ctrl+space. auto completion shouldn't work on amibigous names. Does your variable have the same starting character sequence as a language keyword or other field/variable?

    So that what those two un-labelled numbers at the

    bottom are!

    yeah....again this is a case of eclipse provided functionality that we get for free.

    Ok, check that one off, and replace it with putting a

    label on the current row, column display.

    for new file and new class?

    I'm thinking preferences -> openedge -> editor ->

    templates. I imagine I'll eventually want to do

    something with the code generation templates, but I

    haven't gotten that far yet.

    Not really possible to anyway in 10.1A. Better in 10.1B.

    For the editor templates, it looks like I can change

    the description and pattern, but I can't change the

    "name" - which I'm assuming is the keyboard sequence

    that fires each template off.

    Not sure it crossed anyone's mind to let it be modifiable. No technical reason they can't be.

    The "edit template" window "pattern" editing area's

    awfully small. I've got some other templates that are

    a few K in size,

    A few k? wow.

    and trying to maintain them in

    something like this would be difficult. Ideally,

    templates should be edited in an editor window,

    unless they're supposed to be restricted to

    simplistic variable declarations.

    There is no arbtrary size restriction since its just a string in an xml file.

    note to self...make template macro window bigger. It is resizable (at least in 10.1B which is what I have in front of me).

    What I'm thinking of is a file got into a project -

    such as by the import process - that I decide I don't

    want in there - even if it is hidden behind a filter

    condition.

    I can't just dis-associate it from the project, I

    have to delete the file. While I can see the logic of

    associating those actions, I can think of cases where

    it's not desirable behavior.

    Import is just a copy operation as far as Eclipse is concerned. Since it doesn't keep track of all the contents of a project in a separate file (unlike VS). Do you really want to have an xml file that contains 10,000 file names in it?

    And jdbc requires a server with -S.

    Yup.

    If there was some way for OEA to start a db server

    w/a -S port, and then make a connection, that would

    get rid of the problem of managing the -S port number

    space manually.

    Database connections get some loving in 10.1B that should help with this. Check out the beta and give us some feedback.

    I've gotten drivers to make 10.0 and 9.1 db

    connections, but they're "unsupported". Pre-10.1

    drivers need to come stock with OEA, and be

    supported, otherwise PSC risks making OEA un-usable

    with pre-10.1 database systems.

    There were a lot of changes to the JDBC drivers between 9/10/10.1. In fact the sql statements to manipulate 4gl tables didn't really even exist in 9 so you could only really do queries against data. In 10.1A a lot of statements were added to the sql and the database was modified to allow 4gl table modifications by sql. Older databases can't handle the newer statements, nor can the drivers. So basically db nav becomes read only on anything except 10.1.

    Database navigator is based on an open source product net.sourceforge.sqlexplorer. Its been rebranded, but a lot of our changes have been contributed back to the current maintainer. You'll notice in the JDBC Drivers preference page that there are place holders for other databases. The plugins for these other drivers are available ( we don't ship them for obvious reasons) and can be used if you have the drivers for them. Any JDBC drivers should work for querying. Its the plugin (the db nav part) that contributes the new/edit table/field/ wizards that actuall handle the SQL statements for modifying the database.

    This will be a real a problem when the license policy

    which allows shops to run both OEA and OES expires

    and shops are supposed to declare which package

    they're going with, or paying for a new license to

    keep them both of them active and under maintenance.

    Personally I think OEA and OES should be packaged

    together until OES eventually dies on the vine.

    All of OpenEdge Studio with the exception of Dynamics and the SlickEdit control (and a few other small bits) are shipped with OEA 10.1a.

    Tim KuehnWhy would OEA cripple basic functionality like that?