[icf-dev] ErWin Evaluation - Forum - OpenEdge Development - Progress Community
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[icf-dev] ErWin Evaluation

  • Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2 support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

  • Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2 support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

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  • Thank you very much Bruce,

    take care,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:55 AM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in

    conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2 support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

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  • Bruce,

    With ErWin 4.1 I get errors when trying to reverse engineer my application

    database into ErWin. I'm trying to reverse engineer by connecting using the

    Merant 3.60 ODBC Driver. It connects succesfully, but then when trying to

    read in the definition of the tables in to ErWin it fails with an SQL Syntax

    error 7587. Knowledge base turns up issues pointing to incorrect SQL syntax

    when connecting the database. This suggests to me that the SQL generated by

    ErWin to load the Physical data model is incompatible with Progress.

    Obviosly you guys have it working with the Dynamics Repository database -

    can you perhaps give me any pointers? CA Tech support's answer is simply

    that ErWin only support Progress 8.x. Do I have to load my database into

    8.3 to get the physical model into ErWin?

    any help would be appreciated.

    take care,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:55 AM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in

    conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2 support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

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  • Ben,

    Reverse engineering with the Merant drivers does not work because ERWin does

    not support V9 (although goodness only knows why this has been so difficult

    for them to do??!!).

    Be that as it may, we use the .df files to do the reverse engineer. You need

    to use the df9to8.w program in icf/db/af/erw to convert a V9 .df to V8 .df,

    and then import the V8 .df file.

    There are several things about reverse engineering that are important to

    remember...

    1) Because you have gone from V9 to V8 the storage area information in the

    .df file is lost.

    2) Progress has no relationship info in the database, therefore ERWin cannot

    properly reverse engineer the relationships. If you infer the relationships

    (no matter which method you choose) ERWin will make mistakes. It has to

    guess and sometimes those guesses are wrong.

    3) Make sure you reverse engineer into a copy of the Dynamics template so

    that you get all the extra stuff that we have put in.

    4) As a once off exercise you need to go through and re-supply all the V9

    info into the ERWin model so that the next time you forward engineer it is

    all there.

    Anthony has written an extensive ERWin 4 integration document that you can

    obtain at

    http://www.possenet.org/files/documents/37/564/erwin4_integration.doc

    I'm sure you will find that information useful.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:32 AM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Bruce,

    With ErWin 4.1 I get errors when trying to reverse engineer my application

    database into ErWin. I'm trying to reverse engineer by

    connecting using the

    Merant 3.60 ODBC Driver. It connects succesfully, but then when trying to

    read in the definition of the tables in to ErWin it fails with an

    SQL Syntax

    error 7587. Knowledge base turns up issues pointing to incorrect

    SQL syntax

    when connecting the database. This suggests to me that the SQL

    generated by

    ErWin to load the Physical data model is incompatible with Progress.

    Obviosly you guys have it working with the Dynamics Repository database -

    can you perhaps give me any pointers? CA Tech support's answer is simply

    that ErWin only support Progress 8.x. Do I have to load my database into

    8.3 to get the physical model into ErWin?

    any help would be appreciated.

    take care,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:55 AM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository

    ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for

    creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in

    conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there

    seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2

    support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

  • Ben,

    Just to add to Bruce's comments - we have actually only tested with ERwin

    4.0 SP2 latest build - we have not looked at 4.1 yet - so not sure if you

    will experience errors here or not.

    You should never work with ODBC to Progress from ERwin - it is very unstable

    and as Bruce states only supports V8 databases. Working with DF files is the

    only way to go. We have macros that bridge the gap between V8 and V9. It is

    all in the doc that Bruce pointed you too.

    Regards

    Anthony

    Anthony D Swindells

    Lead Architect, Progress Dynamics

    Progress Software Corporation

    aswindel@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:02 AM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Ben,

    Reverse engineering with the Merant drivers does not work because ERWin does

    not support V9 (although goodness only knows why this has been so difficult

    for them to do??!!).

    Be that as it may, we use the .df files to do the reverse engineer. You need

    to use the df9to8.w program in icf/db/af/erw to convert a V9 .df to V8 .df,

    and then import the V8 .df file.

    There are several things about reverse engineering that are important to

    remember...

    1) Because you have gone from V9 to V8 the storage area information in the

    .df file is lost.

    2) Progress has no relationship info in the database, therefore ERWin cannot

    properly reverse engineer the relationships. If you infer the relationships

    (no matter which method you choose) ERWin will make mistakes. It has to

    guess and sometimes those guesses are wrong.

    3) Make sure you reverse engineer into a copy of the Dynamics template so

    that you get all the extra stuff that we have put in.

    4) As a once off exercise you need to go through and re-supply all the V9

    info into the ERWin model so that the next time you forward engineer it is

    all there.

    Anthony has written an extensive ERWin 4 integration document that you can

    obtain at

    http://www.possenet.org/files/documents/37/564/erwin4_integration.doc

    I'm sure you will find that information useful.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:32 AM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Bruce,

    With ErWin 4.1 I get errors when trying to reverse engineer my application

    database into ErWin. I'm trying to reverse engineer by

    connecting using the

    Merant 3.60 ODBC Driver. It connects succesfully, but then when trying to

    read in the definition of the tables in to ErWin it fails with an

    SQL Syntax

    error 7587. Knowledge base turns up issues pointing to incorrect

    SQL syntax

    when connecting the database. This suggests to me that the SQL

    generated by

    ErWin to load the Physical data model is incompatible with Progress.

    Obviosly you guys have it working with the Dynamics Repository database -

    can you perhaps give me any pointers? CA Tech support's answer is simply

    that ErWin only support Progress 8.x. Do I have to load my database into

    8.3 to get the physical model into ErWin?

    any help would be appreciated.

    take care,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:55 AM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository

    ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for

    creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in

    conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there

    seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2

    support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

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  • Thank you Bruce and Anthony. The ErWin Integration Spec was very useful.

    I've managed to reverse engineer our database into a physical model by

    dumping and converting the df back to v8 using the tool you described. Next

    step dynamics template....

    thanks again,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Anthony Swindells

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 9:33 PM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Ben,

    Just to add to Bruce's comments - we have actually only tested with ERwin

    4.0 SP2 latest build - we have not looked at 4.1 yet - so not sure if you

    will experience errors here or not.

    You should never work with ODBC to Progress from ERwin - it is

    very unstable

    and as Bruce states only supports V8 databases. Working with DF

    files is the

    only way to go. We have macros that bridge the gap between V8 and

    V9. It is

    all in the doc that Bruce pointed you too.

    Regards

    Anthony

    Anthony D Swindells

    Lead Architect, Progress Dynamics

    Progress Software Corporation

    aswindel@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 5:02 AM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Ben,

    Reverse engineering with the Merant drivers does not work because

    ERWin does

    not support V9 (although goodness only knows why this has been so

    difficult

    for them to do??!!).

    Be that as it may, we use the .df files to do the reverse

    engineer. You need

    to use the df9to8.w program in icf/db/af/erw to convert a V9 .df

    to V8 .df,

    and then import the V8 .df file.

    There are several things about reverse engineering that are important to

    remember...

    1) Because you have gone from V9 to V8 the storage area information in the

    .df file is lost.

    2) Progress has no relationship info in the database, therefore

    ERWin cannot

    properly reverse engineer the relationships. If you infer the

    relationships

    (no matter which method you choose) ERWin will make mistakes. It has to

    guess and sometimes those guesses are wrong.

    3) Make sure you reverse engineer into a copy of the Dynamics template so

    that you get all the extra stuff that we have put in.

    4) As a once off exercise you need to go through and re-supply all the V9

    info into the ERWin model so that the next time you forward engineer it is

    all there.

    Anthony has written an extensive ERWin 4 integration document that you can

    obtain at

    http://www.possenet.org/files/documents/37/564/erwin4_integration.doc

    I'm sure you will find that information useful.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2002 12:32 AM

    To: dev@icf.possenet.org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Bruce,

    With ErWin 4.1 I get errors when trying to reverse engineer my

    application

    database into ErWin. I'm trying to reverse engineer by

    connecting using the

    Merant 3.60 ODBC Driver. It connects succesfully, but then

    when trying to

    read in the definition of the tables in to ErWin it fails with an

    SQL Syntax

    error 7587. Knowledge base turns up issues pointing to incorrect

    SQL syntax

    when connecting the database. This suggests to me that the SQL

    generated by

    ErWin to load the Physical data model is incompatible with Progress.

    Obviosly you guys have it working with the Dynamics Repository

    database -

    can you perhaps give me any pointers? CA Tech support's answer

    is simply

    that ErWin only support Progress 8.x. Do I have to load my

    database into

    8.3 to get the physical model into ErWin?

    any help would be appreciated.

    take care,

    Ben

    -Original Message-

    From: Bruce S Gruenbaum

    Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2002 11:55 AM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: RE: ErWin Evaluation

    Dynamics 2.0 uses ERWin 4. You can get the Dynamics repository

    ERWin model

    from the cvs repository. There is also an ERWin 4 template for

    creation of

    Dynamics-style databases.

    The ERWin Dynamics models are in icf/db/icf/doc. The macro code for

    generating triggers and such is in icf/db/af/erw.

    regards,

    Bruce

    Bruce S Gruenbaum, Principal Software Engineer

    the Progress Company

    http://www.progress.com

    bgruenba@progress.com

    -Original Message-

    From: Ben Askins

    Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 7:26 PM

    To: Icf-Dev@Possenet. Org

    Subject: ErWin Evaluation

    Hi All,

    We're currently evaluating ErWin with a plan to use it in

    conjunction with

    Dynamics V2 when released. Reading through past posts there

    seems to be

    some compatibility issues between ErWin 4.x and Dynamics 1.1. My

    questions

    is should we be evaluating ErWin 3.5.2 or will Dynamics V2

    support ErWin

    4.1.

    tia,

    Ben

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

    To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@icf.possenet.org

    For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@icf.possenet.org

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