VAT & Taxes part deux [4.2.1650] - Ecommerce - Ecommerce - Progress Community

VAT & Taxes part deux [4.2.1650]

 Ecommerce

VAT & Taxes part deux [4.2.1650]

  • VAT & Taxes part deux [4.2.1650]
  • I've tested it with another product aswell...

    ProductD costs 50USD, is VAT taxable and has 10% tax (included in prices).
    This time on the backend it costs $55.00 and the front end shows nicely $55.00 (incl VAT) as it should.

    In the shoppingcart it nicely says $55.00. 
    Now when I try to ship it to the Netherlands, it suddenly costs $50.00 and no taxes or VAT seems to be applied.

  • 292019_tax-gone-crazy.PNG
    And finally to top it off... paying triple taxes

    If you'd adjust the 10% taxrate to country of delivery 'Netherlands' and I take my productC again.
    We end up getting the following screenshot...

    Product subtotal $50.00
    VAT Tax: $5.00
    Sales Tax: $10.00

    (Fortunately it doesn't add the VAT Tax and the Sales Tax so in the end you just pay VAT and Sales but still)
  • Hopefully I can explain this correctly in text, but I've attached several screenshots aswell to make things more clear. But as far as I can tell, VAT and Taxes are screwed up completely this time...

    I've got a ProductC. Costs 50USD, it's taxable and has 10% Tax (include tax in prices).
    The backend tells me this product costs $55, on the front end product overview it costs $50. (see screenshot 1)

    When viewing my shopping cart it tells me $50.00 x 1 equals $55. and a subtotal of $55 (see screenshot 2)
    My order summary tells me its subtotal $50.00, Tax $5.00. (see screenshot 3)

    Now if I go back to the shoppingcart, all of a sudden the it's $5.00 cheaper. (see screenshot 4).
    When I step through the entire process and end up at the confirmation page I end up with $50.00 and Tax $5.00 (see screenshot 5)

    If instead of a foreign shipping adress I tell it to ship it to Alabama, US, all of a sudden VAT gets in play, even though
    I distinctly said TAX and not VAT is applicable to this product (see screenshot 6)

    ---

    Somehow Tax and VAT are mixed up (showing VAT on US sale, showing Tax on NL sale) and the shoppingcart summary is displaying prices in a variety (first $55, later $50).

     \

  • Hi Jochem,

    I have tested with a few products and different shipping and billing addresses and I get the problem you describe when I make improper configurations to taxes for a product and shipping. Have you disalbed caching for the pages that use Ecommerce widgets as described in the documentation?

    Greetings,
    Stanislav Velikov
    the Telerik team
    Do you want to have your say in the Sitefinity development roadmap? Do you want to know when a feature you requested is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  • Hey Stanislav,

    Thanks for replying and dabbling with my crummy descriptions :) It's not a caching issue, it's bonked...

    As far as I can see 2 things go wrong:
    - Taxes by shipping/billing
    - Selling to the US.

    Taxes by billing adress don't seem to work, see attached 2 screenshots of orders. I triple checked taxes are based on billing adress. Now as you can see in the order screenshots, I've only changed the shipping country and yet the prices vary. Shipping to the UK makes it add VAT, shipping to the US excludes the VAT.

    This error happens no matter if you set prices include or excluding tax on the site.

    ---

    Secondly for some reason if you're selling to the US (let's imagine that shipping/billing is fixed) all of a sudden VAT doesn't apply no more. Which is strange because I've set my store in the Netherlands.

    As a Dutch (non us) store, selling outside my country doesn't distinct between EU countries or US. It matters on how to file the final sales and taxes, but the sales process inside Sitefinity or every other Ecommerce software is similar. If however I want to achieve the same price/taxes for US and UK, I need to set sales taxes as well, which for a non US company totally doesn't make sense (and that's what's causing the misconfiguration as you put it).

    Taxes can only be exempt if the billing customer adds a valid VAT identification number and can comply with several other requirements (specifically requirements that can't be met with non-shippable products). So ground rule is taxes apply, and I'm fairly confident this applies for all EU countries...

    ---

    Secondly shopping cart widget applies its prices based on the active shipping/billing (if that works) adress, which it shouldn't. Not only causes this the pricing difference between BE and FE as mentioned, it is confusing to the backend and end consumer aswell.

    If the tax rate is set to display prices including taxes, it should do so everywhere until checkout, where (in case taxes don't apply) they are excempt. This is similar behavior to display prices excluding taxes until checkout where they are added.

  • @telerik I would like Jochem to get a bucketload of telerik points for all this testing, he clearly knows how all this stuff works (or should work) and has spent a ton of time finding issues! :)
  • @Steve

    Just enjoying the great summer weather :)
  • I've tried to find some SQL facts to further explain the issues and allow you te recreate the error:

    - Store is set in Netherlands (outside US) and currency is set to Euro's.
    - ProductA costs €100, price including taxes and it has sales tax applied.
    - ProductC costs €100, prince including taxes and it has VAT tax applied.

    On the product display page it says ProductA costs €100 and productC costs €110 (incl VAT) which is correct.

    - Open SQL studio and use the following query:
    SELECT     ttal, tax, sub_total_display, pre_tax_total, pre_tax_price, pre_discount_tax, effective_tax_rate, discount_total, currency  FROM         sf_ec_cart_order

    SELECT     title, price, tax_rate, is_vat_taxable, is_us_canada_taxable, tax_in_price, ttal, vat_tax_id
    FROM         sf_ec_cart_detail

    - Place productA in the shoppingcart and refresh the query.
    the cart_order query is still empty.
    the cart_detail query shows productA with [is_vat_taxable] as 0, [is_us_taxable as 1]

    - Place productC in the shoppingcart and refresh the query.
    the cart_order query is still empty.
    the cart_detail query also shows productC with [is_vat_taxable] as 1, [is_us_taxable] as 0

    - Browse to the shoppingcart page and it should look like screenshot1.
    - Click on checkout
    - Refresh the queries and the cart_order query will now have data.
    - Set shipping and billing adress to Netherlands and click next.
    - Refresh the queries...
    the cart_order query suddenly has a tax of 20.00
    the cart_detail query has changed, where now both productA and productC show [is_vat_taxable] as 1.

    - Click on the shoppingcart page and it should look like screenshot2.


    So all of a sudden, the productA which had no VAT assigned, gets assigned VAT. 
    When clicking on the shoppingcart page, it naturally now shows productA magically being €110 (incl VAT).

  • Was almost buying the commerce module, but I also tested this issue with SQL manager. Same results here... gonna wait a while longer with purchasing. :(

    Thanks Jochem!

    Regards,
    Daniel
  • Hi Jochem,

    I will reply to each of your questions in parts so that it is easy to follow.

     I've got a ProductC. Costs 50USD, it's taxable and has 10% Tax (include tax in prices).
     The backend tells me this product costs $55, on the front end product overview it costs $50. (see screenshot 1)
      I have tested the functionality and the only reason it behaves this way is if you have unchecked "This price is VAT taxable" but still have a selection to VAT Tax Rate.(screenshot 1).
     Please note this is a bug in 4.2 release and we will be changing the UX of assigning taxes to products in 4.2SP1. If you would like to fix the issue now, please uncheck the "This price is VAT taxable"
     checkbox and select "--Select a Tax--" from the tax selector and save changes.(screenshot 2)
     
     When viewing my shopping cart it tells me $50.00 x 1 equals $55. and a subtotal of $55 (see screenshot 2)
     My order summary tells me its subtotal $50.00, Tax $5.00. (see screenshot 3)
     This is also the same issue as above. Please verify.
     
     Now if I go back to the shoppingcart, all of a sudden the it's $5.00 cheaper. (see screenshot 4).
     When I step through the entire process and end up at the confirmation page I end up with $50.00 and Tax $5.00 (see screenshot 5)
     The shoppingcart and checkout widgets will take your shipping address in to account while calculating VAT taxes. If you are shipping to a Non VAT Taxable country(even though your store is in a VAT Taxable
     country) the VAT Tax is taken off your order completely. This is a decision we took while implementing taxes and we welcome your input in this scenario.

    All the best,
    Venkata Koppaka
    the Telerik team

    Do you want to have your say in the Sitefinity development roadmap? Do you want to know when a feature you requested is added or when a bug fixed? Explore the Telerik Public Issue Tracking system and vote to affect the priority of the items
  • Hey Venkata,

    Thanks for taking the time to plow through the issues/questions...

    I'm sorry to say you're wrong, perhaps there is a bug when you uncheck a tax, but it's still secretly checked but these aren't the issues, at least not for me or with these issues. Also the screenshots seem to be the same, so I couldn't see the 2nd one.

    Let me try and adress the bugs and leave the IRS/NON-VAT discussion for a different post ok?

    ---
    The pricing difference between BE and FE actually is localization.
    The backend pricing doesn't take the store's location into account, if I give a product a tax (sales or vat or both) it just applies them on the backend.

    To verify/reproduce:
    take a clean SF with english language, set the store to located in Netherlands or Bulgaria. Create a tax that is US tax. Apply it to a product and compare the price on the back end and on the front end.

    ---
    You said "The shoppingcart and checkout widgets will take your shipping address in to account while calculating VAT taxes. " and that's what I said also, that's a bug.

    If I define under taxes that they should be applied by billing address instead of shipping address then they should. Either it's a bug because the feature shouldn't be in the tax properties or it's a bug on checkout because you're ignoring it in the calculation.

    To verify/reproduce:
    Create Tax-S, set tax applied to shipping adress. 
    Create Tax-B, set tax applied to billing adress.
    Create product-S and product-B, make them identical (price incl taxes/$50) but apply the different tax rates.
    And go check them out with varying billing adresses.

    ---
    The difference between the initial price from the shopping cart summary and the shopping cart summary after having stepped thru step 2 in the checkout process is twofold.

    First, the above mentioned bug causes this behavior.
    Secondly if you follow my latest post (the one with the sql statements) you see that taxes get applied spontaneously to products to whom it shouldn't apply. 

    And since during the checkout phase you're storing back data into the [sf_ec_cart_detail] table, it gets overwritten and you end up with a distorted shoppingcarts.

    ---

    Please follow that last example and you'll see it's not a misconfiguration on my part, but a clear step-by-step approach so you can verify the errors with sql-facts.  I know my initial posts on these issues were a bit unclear but after having spent more and more time with the ecommerce it's clear that these are 3 very distinct and verifiable bugs. 

    Jochem.
  • Hi Jochem,

    You are correct, the backend pricing does not take store location into account while showing the price. However I have forwarded your request to user interface team and they are looking into it.
    Regarding Tax rates and VAT Taxes bug(The bug you pointed out with SQL Statements), unfortunately I was not able to reproduce the issue. Can you send me screenshots of your product configuration /
    tax configuration and other screenshots that go with your issue? so I can look into this issue with more definitive test case.

    Greetings,
    Venkata Koppaka
    the Telerik team

    Thank you for being the most amazing .NET community! Your unfailing support is what helps us charge forward! We'd appreciate your vote for Telerik in this year's DevProConnections Awards. We are competing in mind-blowing 20 categories and every vote counts! VOTE for Telerik NOW >>

  • Ok... knock yourself out!

  • Hi Jochem,

    I have logged this as a bug. Here is the PITS link for the bug.

    Best wishes,
    Venkata Koppaka
    the Telerik team

    Thank you for being the most amazing .NET community! Your unfailing support is what helps us charge forward! We'd appreciate your vote for Telerik in this year's DevProConnections Awards. We are competing in mind-blowing 20 categories and every vote counts! VOTE for Telerik NOW >>